It’s possible you’ll surprise what that is for those who learn the earlier weblog put up. That is truly the type of content material I need to have the ability to put up. I wish to have an opinion, be moved to write down about it, and put up it. The formalized course of and the schedule are the issues that work towards me, however I’m not going to cease having opinions. The distinction is, I’m not going to open up varied different subclasses and do a deep evaluation to ensure I’m shoring up my factors. I could also be fallacious or off the cuff, and if I’m, I hope you let me know.
This dialogue first got here up on the THAC0 with Benefit Discord, so please, for those who haven’t already, take into account becoming a member of our Patreon, becoming a member of our Discord, and listening to the podcast. I’d recognize it. This can be a barely edited model of my ideas after being requested about the newest Unearthed Arcana, trying on the subclasses that is perhaps included on this Fall’s Forgotten Realms releases.
The Subclasses
Bard: School of the Moon. I truly just like the School of the Moon. It has a pleasant mechanical name again to 1e Bards and the Moonshaes, which was very tied to the druidic-themed bards of that period. It type of steps on the School of Spirits with tying talents to “tales,” however that’s not that bizarre for a bard, simply not one thing we’ve seen framed that manner outdoors of the School of Spirits.
Cleric: The Information Area. This revision doesn’t trouble me aside from one factor (mechanically), and that’s Unfettered Thoughts, which implies Intelligence checks can be largely pointless for this character after sixth degree until they’re extraordinarily tough. That feels too early for that type of skill, and it leans again into that downside of exhibiting {that a} class or subclass is nice by simply not having the category must roll for something.
Fighter: Purple Dragon Knight. Even if you wish to have a fighter subclass that’s a dragon rider, I feel you continue to have some awkwardness with the Seventh-level skill as a result of being allowed to make use of a medium dragon as a mount, although it’s too small, feels such as you’re awkwardly using one thing, and to me that feels much less cool than feeling such as you’re a reliable dragon rider using one thing that may be ridden. I’m nonetheless attempting to work out the hesitance to make it giant at Seventh-level, because the statistics are nonetheless keyed to the character, to not an present stat block. Its not even prefer it interacts with emanations a lot, which might be wider with a big creature than a medium one. fifteenth degree earlier than you possibly can image your character using a correctly sized dragon doesn’t really feel good to me.
Paladin: Oath of Noble Genies. Oath of the Noble Genies is a conceptual situation for me, no matter lore. I feel a paladin’s oath is about DOING one thing for a motive or stopping one thing for a motive. There are a variety of oaths, quite a lot of them third occasion, that do what this subclass does, the place it doesn’t play with the core fantasy of a paladin. “I’ve sworn an oath to do genie stuff and oppose non-genie stuff.” I don’t get a powerful roleplaying vibe from that.
Actually, one of many huge promoting factors of the 5e paladin is that they’re so dedicated to doing a factor, championing a CAUSE, that they don’t essentially have a selected deity, and the gods simply type of say, “yup, that’s a champion of THING, they want these powers.” However that is “I feel these genies must be adopted, so I serve them,” which doesn’t really feel like a paladin oath to me.
Ranger: Winter Walker. The issue I’ve with the Winter Walker is that you’re a ranger from the scary chilly, looking scary issues that stay within the chilly. And also you do additional chilly injury. That’ll present these yetis, chilly mild walkers, and white dragons who’s boss. By that, I imply somebody who doesn’t do additional chilly injury that these creatures can ignore. Sure, for those who take this ranger and journey in non-cold environments, however it’s a bizarre disconnect that they’re much less efficient of their native terrain due to this.
Sorcerer: Spellfire Sorcery. The Spellfire Sorcerer truly does what I might anticipate from the setting materials it’s drawn from. It’s not as highly effective as most spellfire wielders have been portrayed, however it does what they do, in a toned-down method, and after they get increased degree, they’ll begin trying extra just like the uncooked, elemental channelers of the Weave that they’re alleged to be. I’m type of cool with that.
Rogue: Scion of the Three. My situation with the Scion of the Three will sound like a setting situation, however it’s nearly extra of a advertising and marketing situation. The italicized textual content may as nicely say this subclass exists as a result of Baldur’s Gate III remodeled a billion {dollars}. One of many issues I noticed lauded in varied locations in regards to the 2024 Participant’s Handbook’s character creation course of was “ask to see if an evil character is okay.” It feels bizarre to actively encourage not simply nuanced evil characters however somebody type of revels in homicide as a participant character possibility.
The Lore Behind the Subclasses
Fighter: Purple Dragon Knight. The Purple Dragon Knights don’t have anything to do with amythest dragons. It’s very bizarre that within the designer movies, it appears to trouble them that there wasn’t a extra direct thematic tie between calling an order of knights “The Knights of the X Dragon” and actually giving them powers based mostly on that dragon kind. That makes it really feel just like the expectation of every thing within the setting is that there can be a really apparent game-related motive for each title, with none symbolism or nuance. Is it going to be an issue if the Purple Wizards of Thay aren’t all actually purple?
I don’t suppose works as a dragonrider knight in addition to it may, however it has nothing to do with Cormyr as a Purple Dragon Knight. It’s taking one thing intrinsically Cormyrean and attempting to say, “Yeah, perhaps these had been type of associated to Cormyr, however now they’re not related to a single nation and are all about working with amethyst dragons.” That’s even weirder as a result of why are amethyst dragons extra prone to bond with a knightly order than different dragon varieties, aside from coopting an present title?
Gold, Silver, Bronze, Purple, and Blue have all been related to dragon riders and militaries in different settings, however Amethyst dragons are obsessive about a number of realities and amassing obscure data. Aside from attempting to make the title of the subclass painfully apparent, there isn’t any motive to make this a category related to the knighthood of Cormyr. If something, for those who REALLY needed to attach this to the Realms or Baldur’s Gate III, make this a category tied to, however not restricted to, Githyanki, and ensure you should utilize purple dragons and perhaps a number of different varieties as nicely, with this subclass. I do know they gained’t go this route as a result of it’s extra obscure, however for those who actually needed an order of dragon-riding knights to function a foundation, Impiltur has historically had dragon riders in its historical past. However Impiltur is even additional away from the Sword Coast and fewer generally talked about than Cormyr.
Cleric: Information Area. It’s minor, however the marketing-driven lore bothers me. Within the description of the Information area, the first gods related to Information are talked about as Asmodeus, Mystra, Savras, and Jergal, after which “less-common divinities” like Deneir, Oghma, and Azuth are talked about. The introduction is contradicted as a result of Oghma and Gond had been talked about up entrance, however then the remainder of the outline walks all of that again.
Jergal is an obscure deity that many individuals within the Realms don’t even keep in mind. He has a job in Baldur’s Gate III, however the narrative doesn’t indicate that Jergal is a serious deity, even in Baldur’s Gate III. It’s very cautious to border him as an obscure god who gave his energy to Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul within the distant previous. Oghma, Deneir, and Azuth are all rather more well-known deities. Sure, folks could know who Jergal is from Baldur’s Gate III, but when they had been paying consideration, they’re most likely going to surprise why he’s so well-known now abruptly.
Paladin: Oath of Noble Genies. There are genies within the historical past of Calminshan. The genies Calim and Memnon each fashioned nations within the area and went to warfare with each other. The area and its cities nonetheless bear their names, however they had been certain right into a gem earlier than Calimnshan was formally based. Neither genie was notably nicely regarded. Within the 4e period, Memnon and Calmin had been freed, went again to warfare with each other, put in genasi as leaders within the area, and customarily handled the people of the area fairly badly.
We haven’t seen a lot of Calimnshan within the 5e period, however we all know Calim and Memnon had been overthrown and banished again to the basic chaos/elemental planes. Principally, it was the identical broad reboot that the remainder of the Realms obtained, so we simply typically know that Calimnshan is being pieced again collectively, most likely in a fashion that appears just like what it appeared like within the late 3e period . . . perhaps.
That provides us a number of points with having well-known and established paladins with an Oath to serve genies:
- Its unlikely they might be drawing energy from all 4 genie varieties when there was solely a Djinn and an Efreet concerned within the area
- Servants of those genies aren’t prone to be working with each other since Calmin and Memnon have continuously been at warfare with each other
- Servants of each genies would most likely be seen as oppressors on this period, provided that the genies put genasi in cost and particularly enslaved or oppressed the people of the area
I do know they might not wish to play up Djinn and Efreet being in an everlasting warfare—I don’t know—however that doesn’t imply Calmin and Memnon wouldn’t have been at warfare, establishing separate, competing empires within the area in historic occasions. They might not wish to play up genasi enslaving people within the title of the genie lords, however it might be unusual to attempt to change Calim and Memnon from generational villains to revered rulers.
Rogue: Scion of the Three. There isn’t any motive {that a} rogue that’s supernaturally invested in homicide could be a “Scion of the Three” and never only a “Scion of Bhaal.” Even if you wish to lean into the Baldur’s Gate III storyline, three distinct, contentiously allied faiths had been working collectively. You had a Chosen of Myrkul, a Chosen of Bane, and a Chosen of Bhaal, not a champion of all three. It’s not simply design dictated by advertising and marketing; it’s design that’s solely partaking with the floor degree of the sport somewhat than its precise content material.
Ranger: Winter Walker. The Winter Walker ranger leans closely into being a ranger from a chilly land beset by imprecise cosmic horrors and undead, which is the theme of Rime of the Frost Maiden, however it’s by no means been a theme of Icewind Dale earlier than that. It’s positive as a theme for that journey, however it turns into this unusual factor the place a kind of ranger has emerged that caters to a state that has solely existed in Icewind Dale for a decade? If that is the brand new “theme” of Icewind Dale, what does the place appear to be once you resolve Rime of the Frost Maiden? If you happen to aren’t taking part in that journey, is it the default that Auril all the time imposes everlasting winter until you play by means of these occasions? It looks like we’re solely going to get this new theme, which was the consequence of Auril being trapped there and inflicting the everlasting winter in recent times.
I perceive they need very distinct, simply communicated themes, however these themes really feel very skinny and really clearly tied to very particular, singular storylines. Icewind Dale does have a theme of getting misplaced locations which can be tough to search out due to the climate and being the nook of the world the place folks go to lose themselves. That theme ties into Honor Amongst Thieves, and Honor Amongst Thieves even flies within the face of Icewind Dale, which is a horror setting.
With out Auril and the everlasting winter, it’s nonetheless fairly rattling chilly more often than not, and we’ve established the next in regards to the area:
- Outcasts and folks wanting to begin over stay in Ten Cities
- The Lord’s Alliance established a jail within the area as a result of it sequesters undesirables far-off from a lot of the Sword Coast, and solely daring, charming, movie-worthy heroes would handle to flee
- Due to the distant location, historic civilizations have ruins there which have gone unexplored, which has been a theme each in Rime of the Frost Maiden and the Icewind Dale video video games
It’s additionally only a wee bit unusual that the outline of the Winter Walker implies that there could also be a number of fallen cities from Netheril within the metropolis, which type of looks as if overkill, provided that there weren’t that many Netherese flying cities to start with.
Broader Lore Ideas
I perceive eager to have clear themes, however there are clear themes and skinny, single-note areas. It appears unusual that not solely is Icewind Dale being restricted to chilly/horror themes but in addition that Chilly Walker rangers are so targeted on being “Icewind Dale” rangers that an order of rangers with these competencies isn’t framed as having extra origins like Vaasa or the Nice Glacier. That is even stranger when you may have the alternative downside with the Purple Dragon Knights being taken from particular to Cormyr to being a broader group throughout Faerun.
I’m unsure what’s driving these varieties of selections besides to ruthlessly design in order that one thing can solely be a single factor. Even then, it’s unusual that the only factor for one subclass is “you’re from this one area,” and the only factor for this different subclass is “you possibly can’t be from only one area.”
I’ve mentioned this a number of occasions, however I’ll revisit one thing I’ve mentioned earlier than, throughout a number of editions. As a lot as I like the elements of the Realms that attraction to me, if you’re remaking giant elements of the Realms to suit broader D&D issues, then don’t use the Realms; make a brand new setting that may maintain your new assumptions. If you wish to use Baldur’s Gate III to promote books, then it is best to notice that Baldur’s Gate III had substance as a result of it used the feel that already existed within the setting, not as a result of it redefined giant sections of the setting and ignored different elements.
There’s a huge distinction between “See, Jergal is a factor you acknowledge from Baldur’s Gate III” and “Jergal has the place he has within the story due to the backstory of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, that’s been circulating since at the least AD&D 2e merchandise.” I’m not calling for a devotion to excessive minutia. Canon for the sake of canon is unhealthy, and it retains folks from partaking with the setting. Nonetheless, continuity must be greater than figuring out correct nouns for it to have any which means. It’s not simple to search out that center floor, however that’s why the folks within the business who can do it handle to make their work shine.
